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[Mod Post] Weekly Discussion #1 - Marksman

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Post time 2017-11-18 05:45 AM | Show all posts
Edited by Anomander_x at 2017-11-18 05:47 AM

Marksmen don't currently have a role.  The role of late game damage got taken away from them when mages were buffed since they have comparable damage late game and immeasurably more damage early and mid game as well as utility and mobility.
If you're wondering what to do with Marksmen then figure out what they are better at than any other role...
Damage? Nope, Mages have them hands down, especially bursty ones, and they add CC as well.
Utility/CC? Nope, again mages and support are much better.
Tanky? hahahahaha
ADC? Late game mages have the same damage output and MM can't withstand getting bursted by said mages.  They have totally lost the carry role.
Lane Push/Roam? Assassins have so much more mobility and can clear and push more effectively as well as have more escape.  They can also roam and kill more throughout the game whereas MM can not.

I can't think of anything that a Marksmen can do better than an equally skilled player on another class. They just don't seem to fit anywhere.  Karrie and YSS seem to be the most viable right now given Karrie's slow and mobility and YSS unique skills and damage but thats it.  They need some love that's for sure.
Post time 2017-11-18 07:46 AM From mobile phone | Show all posts
the item that has a chance to slow opponent that gives 1000hp is rarely used. Layla is actually fine, MM are still dominating in late game except yisunshin as i see him constant the whole game compared to other MM. Most problem MM face was they are way too squishy against Assassins but if they manage to farm up to late game, then theyll be powerful
Post time 2017-11-18 11:40 AM | Show all posts
Edited by BD007 at 2020-3-8 08:58 PM

It is viable if the game reaches end game which dosent happen a lot because of assassins like lancelot and mages dominating early-mid game
Irithel is good but her jungling speed is way too slow
Clint is fine with his new buff
Miya gets destroyed early game
these buffs i am suggesting could help :
increase karries ult speed by 10% ,increase miya basic damage also reduce cooldown on her ult,increase moskov hp by 75 he is way to squishy ,increase layla movement speed by 10
as for items i think
blade of seven seas, corrosion scythe, buff damage on demon hunter sword

ugothmeex replied at 2017-11-18 07:46 AM
the item that has a chance to slow opponent that gives 1000hp is rarely used. Layla is actually fine ...

not if the assassin is natalia  mm's are food for her at all levels

Post time 2017-11-18 12:14 PM From mobile phone | Show all posts
OOrmak replied at 2017-11-17 10:27 PM
Not really useless, her attack speed + life steal = our nightmare.Like u buy first claw then crit+a ...

Yes her ulti, first skill and pasive is complete collection for mm, but late game never exist anymore pro player basicly end game in 11-18 min, no late no mm
Post time 2017-11-18 02:57 PM | Show all posts
Honestly, MM are my least played class. I hate snowball heroes because I am, unfortunately, impatient and with the exception of late game layla and the occasional well timed Yi sun shin ULT I very rarely die to a MM (presently). This was not the case back when Moskov was a beast and the same with karrie, but in the current META I don't fear MM.

With that being said, I'd love to see some love shown to the MM. As for your questions, here goes:

-MM are not viable in current meta imo because meta games dont last long enough to let them shine. MM are useful for pushing, but I'd rather a split/charger like haya, fanny, or zilong who can burn down a tower and escape.

-The only MM I see thriving presently are Layla, thanks to her ridiculous range late game, and Yi Sun Shin who does more damage close range than long range, which makes him an interesting choice, not to mention his awesome ULT that can kill steal early game before opponents get boots.

-as for underused items, I don't know... I guess I've never seen a MM running Hunter's Blade. Which Is a little funny considering it gives the champ a 5 X attack in a row and improves movement speed. So if Layla hits for 1.5k per hit in late game, she could potentially pull a 7.5k hit with a single shot. Thats insane damage. BUT I don't know if hunter strike would work that way. Someone feel free to test it out in a custom.
Post time 2017-11-18 03:24 PM | Show all posts
They are strong in late game, but it's hard to farm in early game. Those assassins or whoever won't let you farm easily. Even in late game, assassins or mages can kill you with one shot if they targeted you first. Most enemies will target marksman in late game because they are main damage dealers in late game.

Layla is very squishy so I usually go in the same lane with the tank. She doesn't have any escaping ability, but she can do insane damage from long range, so she seems balanced for me. I wish she is more durable since she can easily get killed in early game. Yi Sun Shin seems to be strong in current meta since he got few buffs in previous patches. The main issue with marksman for me is the mana cost. They run out of mana so fast. Blue buff is useless on marksman since mana cost won't decrease. It would be better if blue buff works on marksman and fighter. I hate recalling because of mana. Not sure about the items. Not all the physical items are for marksman, they are for fighters and assassins so yah.
Post time 2017-11-18 03:53 PM | Show all posts
Marksman, not meta. I feel like they should decrease Karrie's ult atk speed by 10% instead of 20%. 20% is to the point where it doesn't make a dmg difference between the basic attack and the ult.
 Author| Post time 2017-11-18 04:31 PM | Show all posts
FlashS12 replied at 2017-11-18 03:53 PM
Marksman, not meta. I feel like they should decrease Karrie's ult atk speed by 10% instead of 20%. 2 ...

Karrie does feel a bit weak right now but she's still serviceable compared to some marksmen.

YSS is probably the best marksman right now, just won a game with him and carried my team. His buffed ult really did wonders for the hero.
Post time 2017-11-18 08:54 PM | Show all posts
- How viable is it to use Marksmen in this patch?
They are usable but not a must having them in a match.

- What marksmen do you think can thrive on this patch?
YSS and Irithel.

- What are items that are underused on marksmen?
Any items with more defense stats than phys attack. I kinda miss the old broken thunderbelt on Clint. Hahaha.

- More marksman buff?

Yes. Some buffs for them to make them more useful in early and mid game. Reduce Clint's mana cost as the jungle buff now doesn't have mana reduction effect to MM.

- Would you be fine with Layla if she got this buff?
I'm fine with any buffs to any MM for this meta.
Post time 2017-11-19 05:28 AM From mobile phone | Show all posts
Edited by BD007 at 2020-3-8 08:59 PM

I think that marksman are good if their team is able to survivr till late game. But in ranked games it is really unlikey for a game to get to the late game.

Aditya30 replied at 2017-11-18 01:32 AM
I want to ask a thing: What item would be better for Malefic Roar replacement if the enemy team does ...

There are a few off tanks like chou and lapu lapu.
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