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Author: Burnzey91
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[Query] Is Demon Hunter Sword worth it?

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Post time 2021-12-29 04:48 PM | Show all posts
@Magnum_bangbang

DHS is bad against pure Armor and good against HP items..... you need to observe the stats and damage counter better.

With pure armor, DHS passive does get affected, and if your enemies get pure armors instead of hybrid HP + armor, there's no point getting DHS because you cannot abuse the HP passive of DHS well. In fact, using Malefic Roar or Hunter Strike will be much better.
1 crit item (Berserker) gives higher damage output, what do you mean by saying 1 crit item is useless compared to DHS??
Post time 2021-12-29 08:09 PM | Show all posts
Edited by Magnum_bangbang at 2021-12-29 11:08 PM
CloudDevelic replied at 2021-12-29 04:48 PM
@Magnum_bangbang

DHS is bad against pure Armor and good against HP items..... you need to observe t ...

Technically yes. If we imagine situation, somewhere someone buy only pure armor items... BUT in reaity, its make you defence really weak, because armor effective go down with increasing. And if you play tank/fighter, you already have good base armor. You just cant buy only pure armor build. At least you need a magic defence items. So if you buy only pure armor items, other player will crush you and force to buy some health items. Its what i mean. This way, you have no reason to buy only pure armor, except you play against only DHS players, or want to counter heal item, but have no slots to other defence item.

1 crit item (Berserker) gives higher damage output, what do you mean by saying 1 crit item is useless compared to DHS??

Is it? As i remember my and youtubers tests, dps with Berserker is lower than DHS. But i test it like year ago by myself with miya(when she has both builds and meta, and i must choose). And saw youtube compare with Layla(right after re-work). Maybe its also about attack speed. Or maybe something was changed. I thought need to test it again.

P.S. And also, i can tell about Sun. As HoaHoa tell its situationally. Some time you want a crit build. Some DHS time build. Some time tank build. Some time physicle piercing build. Its all for different goals and matchups.
Post time 2021-12-30 12:05 AM | Show all posts
@Magnum_bangbang

For SEA we usually rush pure armor items now, and get HP from Athena or Oracle etc. I don't even see much Antique Cuirass or Brute Force to be honest (for BFP mostly damage dealers buy them)

For ASPD heroes, DHS indeed > Crit, but for semi DPS and Burst heroes like Layla, Irithel etc, Crit wins DHS definitely, that's for sure. I've tested physical items for MMs extensively, and still found that either Crit or pure AP like Blade of Despair is still the best way to build them.
Post time 2021-12-30 12:36 AM | Show all posts
Edited by Magnum_bangbang at 2021-12-30 04:30 AM
CloudDevelic replied at 2021-12-30 12:05 AM
@Magnum_bangbang

For SEA we usually rush pure armor items now, and get HP from Athena or Oracle etc ...

I was test it 5 min ago. And what i get.
Test with 15 lvl Layla, against 1 lvl Layla dummy at max range, without skills, with 1 item and speed boots.

With Berserker -
30% crit chance(5% from emblems, 25% from item)
440 damage from base attack.
1.65 attack speed.
1014 from crit(well, maybe its 1065, and crit attacks a lil miss a range modifier but not really matter).
,
DHS.
5% crit chance
393 damage from base attack.
1.90 attack speed.
+ DHS passive as we calculate a 8% damage of current health. (9 - 1 because any target have armor from level).

Its a hard to test, because crit a random. And you can get a 3 crit in a row and oneshoot target or no any crit and kill target for ages. Random is thing.
So, calculate it in theory, with theory 3k health target.
With berserker we need avergy 6 attacks, to 2 crit(30%). Yeah, 5 attacks with 1 crit deal around 2850 damage, and crit make huge overkill of it. But NVM.
With DHS we are also need a 6 attacks.

But DHS deal 6 attacks with more attack speed. So this way DHS deal a little more damage. BUT. there a one another thing. Its from Layla by max range. Other mm have a better a attack speed scale and lower base damage. And no one give you to keep max range. And Layla is unplayble without good team. And in real combat you will use skills that not deal crit damage or DHS damage. And its not a tank target. And etc. So, DHS is better.

And... You still not get my point. Crit build have more DPS. Not for not ASPD heroes only. For all except heroes like badang or Claude. Even sun, argus and etc deal more damage with crit items. BUT there a few notes, that you might keep in mind. One of them - if you will buy a crit item and you opponent buy a DHS, he will have advantage for a time. You will get compensation, after next 1 or 2 items, for sure. But when you have 1 item vs 1 item he will have advantage. Its what i talking about.
Post time 2022-1-4 06:17 PM | Show all posts
stack it diminishingly, or have the % damage based on the current hp present
 Author| Post time 2022-1-6 04:25 PM | Show all posts
CloudDevelic replied at 2021-12-29 04:48 PM
@Magnum_bangbang

DHS is bad against pure Armor and good against HP items..... you need to observe t ...
DHS is bad against pure Armor and good against HP items..... you need to observe the stats and damage counter better.


Even if they have all HP, the% of damage is still 9% of current health.

Good initial damage, but eventually at 50% health each strike does 4% total health, then 2% at 25%Maximum health.

It's a weapon that seemingly gets weaker as you fight a target which is super counterintuitive.

I mean what if Devour damage was just a% of your physical damage  
Post time 2022-1-8 04:49 PM | Show all posts
Edited by CloudDevelic at 2022-1-8 05:12 PM

@Burnzey91

Yeah, I do agree that it still pack a punch in the initial shaving of your enemies' HP. But then again, it is extremely unviable this meta especially to use DHS unless you're like Wanwan, Claude, Badang who can compliment and abuse DHS well due to your skillset and nature of your basic attacks.

It's much more lucrative and wise to go for explosive burst damage, as nothing can deny absolute power like high Physical Attack. Enemy buys armor or HP items, so what? EB, Malefic Roar or Hunter Strike can completely counter them tbh. But if I specifically buy DHS and enemy immediately stack up on their armor, I would need at least 2 more items in order to get back my advantage and momentum. It is extremely unwise in my honest opinion as item building depends heavily on your situation at that specific point in time of the match. We often have to apply foresight, and also the fact that item slots are limited. Why would I opt for DHS if I can instead get Malefic Roar/Hunter Strike and completely counter my enemies' defence item sets? And in this Meta, durability > Lifesteal to be honest as everyone is pretty much overloaded in damage. Getting some armor yourself even as a damage dealer would be a much wiser choice, such as Brute Force as it gives movement speed + armor up on stacks. More mobility gives me more initiative to attack or retreat; it is simply a better strategy compared to adding DPS but having to use more time to utilise it fully. While full stack DHS is strong, but realistically how often can we even get to halfway of the stacks? Rarely. Compare that to having a stable passive right at the start.
Maybe it's my personal attitude as a player, as I leverage and lean towards pure strength or explosive power. But I stand by my points as I often have the philosophy of killing my enemies in a few hits, rather than slowly poking and peeling them off. I mostly play burst or semi-burst heroes after all rather than pure DPS like Wanwan or Claude.


In conclusion, on burst or semi burst heroes, there's rarely a place to fit DHS in. The only exception that I can think of is Ling. Perhaps the attack speed helps in proc all swords faster, plus good Lings usually can capitalise on 5 swords easily and expend all of them within split seconds. But putting it on heroes such as Layla wouldn't be wise. Plus typically to abuse DHS well, you usually need to buy it as your 1st or 2nd item after boots. Buying DHS late is a bad choice because you're competing with other better items such as Malefic Roar, as DHS allows snowball in the right situation if bought early. But if you buy it early on most of the heroes in this meta, you trade damage foundation for a little bit of snowball capability which the window wouldn't last more than 2-3mins. That's a huge risk as it's akin to sacrificing the entire forest for 1 special tree. It just doesn't make sense on a practical and realistic application as the disadvantages and risks heavily outweigh the advantages it brings. Sometimes, DHS's strength couldn't even be shown because you'll be under the threat of heavy CCs and Burst Damage from your enemies. You'll even be nerfing yourself.


Thus, why also I reiterate that item building is an art and a skill of its own. Understanding the pace of the matches, the meta, as well as the nature of the heroes that you're using is extremely crucial when setting up an item set.
I'm not necessarily arguing against your points directly as I'm more of speculating and showing everyone my thought process here. But for the record, I'm against using DHS unnecessarily like on heroes that don't need it or can't capitalise on it.
To summarise, my long-winded wall of text argument on how DHS is unrealistic to be used as a situational item.






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