This DPS hero has the worst physical growth in the game

Burnzey91

I saw a YouTube comment that said this particular hero has a measly attack growth of 4 per level.

4.

I just verified it and it's true. In contrast, the highest is 13.5, 3 times higher.

You could argue that Argus has physical growth tied to his ultimate. However, when you average it out over the levels it works out to be 5.7, only slightly higher than Barats (but he is a tank hero anyway).

Why is Argus's physical growth so bad?

In order for him to remain at the same physical growth as the average fighter(8), his ultimate needs to be doubled to 20 for every ultimate level and keep growth at 4.

Alternatively keep ultimate 10 per level and boost growth from 4 to 6/6.5

CloudDevelic

@Burnzey91

Arguably, attack growth isn't the only factor in deciding a hero's true potential power or standing power. Not every hero benefit from attack growth, given their nature.

For example, heroes like Argus may have "weaker" attack growth but that does not affect their scaling, nor their effectiveness or strength throughout the game simply due to his basic attack passive and ultimate. If one builds him in a particular way (namely attack speed), you can then see his true potential and actually note that this makes him balanced because if he is given the same scaling as say Terizla, you will immediately notice that his damage will be too, too overwhelming.

I would actually say that heroes like Freya is in fact quite "overpowered" (not in the definition of META, but still powerful if you think about it) because of her super swift basic attack passive which allows her to burst insane speed for a short moment of time; but she has moderate to healthy level of attack growth.

In summary, I actually think Argus is alright. He's actually in the right place right now and shouldn't be adjusted lower or higher in stats anymore else he would become either too weak or strong. Same with heroes like Freya.

Samsaras

His power budget went to his 5 seconds of death immunity ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Burnzey91

CloudDevelic replied at 2022-8-4 08:55 PM
@Burnzey91

Arguably, attack growth isn't the only factor in deciding a hero's true potential power  ...

That is what scaling is.. attack growth. He also only gains 1% attack speed per level which is an overall 14% increase. Other than that everyone needs gear in order to make their hero more powerful, so items are not a unique concept to Argus. The most accurate comparisons are to other attack speed legends, which still have a higher overall average increase to their attack growth.

His passive attack takes 7 strikes to activate which only does 150 more damage than his basic attack and scales from attack power. In comparison to Zilong which takes 3 attacks to activate to deal 50% more physical attack than Argus and has a stronger base heal. Zilong can activate this passive twice before Argus activates his once.

You can build attack speed items, but your damage output will be terrible. The reason DHS is a core item is because he relies on this item as a crutch to make up the fact he has no core strength to his attacks. This item loses its potency during the fight as it's based on current max health %, not total. Attack speed also doesn't benefit his skill 2 at all.

His ultimate is powerful, as should be with ultimates, but it's not a hit and win. What I find unfair is that you can generate lifesteal from Argus on 0 health in Ultimate, but you can't lifesteal as Argus on targets with a shield. Also the best counter to his ultimate is crowd control and just being out of reach.

Honestly 12 second base cooldown to his only mobility and Skill 2 requiring you to be on a set path (and the speed boost is actually slower than other heroes with how and when they use their speed boost ) is really easy to chase after or run away from Argus. He also has no core slow effect and relies on items to do this for him.

I personally think his skill 2 needs a buff in the later stage of the game (6+). The damage over time becomes static and doesn't improve due to the armour, shields and healthpools. Even the base damage is pretty poor. I also think the speed boost needs an increase. What's the point of having a chase mechanic when other heroes have a faster cooldown, faster movement %, don't require any aim and don't require a charge time?

Samsaras

If you think 4 sec is too little suggest to remove death immunity for other buffs. I always thought death immunity was cheat ability & will support any buffs you propose in exchange for it. You cannot give too much overall power to a hero who can ignore the consequences of his actions for 4 seconds. If you buff argus, when do you thinks those buffs will be used? Yes, during those 4 seconds where you cannot do anything to him in return. Other heroes who have a chase mechanic sometimes have to use them to escape if they take too much dmg. Not argus tho. He will just use ult & then if you cannot escape you can only die ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Burnzey91

Samsaras replied at 2022-8-6 02:51 PM
If you think 4 sec is too little suggest to remove death immunity for other buffs. I always thought  ...

I have a gallery of argus screenshots on my other phone, but people don't tend to play him so I don't have many on my new one. He's not a very popular hero, so it's rare to get snaps of his performance. Long story short, every game with Argus in it has this same result. He's overly reliant on his ultimate to engage in any fight as any team fight means he will get one shot and 1vs 1 his damage output is that bad players can stand toe to toe with him generating lifesteal while he hits them with a wet noodle.

Argus as a character is flawed. The revamp was ultimately a failure with minor adjustments here and there until Moonton gave up on him.

His kit is shit. He needs to substitute items for a lackluster arsenal of skills and abilities. Based off his passive, he's a basic attack hero, but none of his abilities support his basic attack playstyle. I've broken down every single flaw in his kit and uploaded to GD >.  Ive also uploaded video evidence of his bugs to the forums twice with no official response.

I'm Mythic 5, I'm not the best, but after 2.5k games on him I think I'd like to know I have a decent understanding of how he plays and his strengths/weaknesses.

Wanna know to beat his death immunity? CC / smoke bomb / suppression / Karina dance / flameshot. His skill 1 is one of the longest mobility cooldowns in the game, if he's already burnt it trying to reach you then he's a sitting duck.

Samsaras

Burnzey91 replied at 2022-8-8 08:22 PM
I have a gallery of argus screenshots on my other phone, but people don't tend to play him so I don ...

I don't take screenshots randomly, but I see MVp or gold argus more than bronze Argus (same mythic 5, i maintain 2 accounts at m5 & legend 5 since highest number of players are between that range)

You just have to play around his ultimate. Hide in bush & s1->s2->s1 out repeatedly. Play extra safe without his ult. And he breaks teamfights. If you cc him other enemies kill you. If you don't cc him he kills you. And running is not an option if he times his entrance properly. I'm seeing him more now since he's a good counter to yin.
CC - 4 seconds on cc wasted on argus & he doesn't even die. And now you have no cc for the rest of his team
smoke bomb - only effects nat herself. Just move out of the range &/or focus someone else. It's like saber ulting someone with purify. Just don't
suppression - if u see supress hero, have your ult ready. If they waste supress on you & you don't even die by ulting before supress that's a huge advantage for your team
Karina dance - dance is lost if she atks you & cooldown is long. All basic atk heroes play around using this(the fact that she can't spam s1 & s1 is also her mobility/engage)
flameshot - just go away if they flameshot you. It's not like it's a special argus counter. You can focus other heroes. Also don't engage with your ult. Save it to either run away or prolong the fight (def or atk)

Thanks to his ult, argus will always be a problem, or be irrelevant (mvp or bronze). I wasn't joking when I said remove his death immunity, as he can't be universally strong while having death immunity up his sleeve. Pick a hero you think is strong & then add death immunity to his kit & see if he remains strong or becomes op ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Samsaras

s5tank replied at 2022-8-11 06:13 PM
You forgot most important thing in all replays:

He is the most squishy fighter in game.

Take any fighter & build him mm build & he will be squishy. On the other hand, build fighter build on mm like brody granger & they will be more tanky.
His role is dmg & chase, which is more common in assassins. He needs to depend on his ult to sustain, or can you imagine non-squishy fighter like chou, lapu, etc with a 4 sec invincible mechanic?

So yeah, he's the most squishy most of the time, but he's the most tanky fighter in the game for 4 seconds of his choice. You cannot kill him even if 5 burst mage or 5 mm atk him during that time